Axe thrower interview: Pops

I've looked up to Pops since before I started throwing in a league. In fact, it'd be safe to claim that he's the reason I solidified my interest in the sport.

When I first learned of axe throwing, I did the normal Millenial thing of looking up everything I could online - and there wasn't much. Sure, a lot of WATL championship videos and a few "here's how you throw" shorts, but nothing to really speak to the excitement, overall, of this goofy hobby. Then I came across a bunch of videos Steve Malvey (the aforementioned Pops) made about the axes he throws, and why.

His manner, his excitement, and his warm, approachable manner of speaking made me get even more into the idea of [spending too much money on axes and getting really into a tiny, bespoke sport] uh, throwing.

I got a chance to sit down with Pops to talk about, well, a whole lotta stuff. This is a long interview, but I think it's too valuable to cut down. So here it is, an axe thrower interview with Pops, where we talk about the beginning of the sport, how to throw smart, and how to maintain the culture of being inviting:

Pops:

Okay, let's sit down. Yeah. You don't do this standing up, do you?

Badger:

No. I mean, I do it any way I can get it.

Pops:

This is a stupid fucking sport. It's dumb.

Badger:

It is dumb. It's...

Pops:

Horrible.

Pops, how long have you been throwing?

Started throwing in 2017.

Fairly long time. My son Sean, went to a bachelor's party at Urban Exes in Philly, and he was the first one to throw up in that venue, which I'm very proud of.

Any dad would be.

And again, good Irishman, they had no toilets at that point. It was Porta John's and stuff like that. He went to that and then took me the following week or something. So I threw, it took me an hour and a half to stick a hatchet, and I said, this is torture. I hate it. And I still have a picture of that first bullseye of me. And then that was it. I was hooked.

I've always played competitive sports, whether it's in high school and beyond that with softball and volleyball and all that shit. And it just was so different and so new. I'm like, oh, cool, let's go. Let's have some fun.

How was it different compared to those sports?

Because of the social aspect of it, quite honestly, because a lot of those other sports are so focused on winning, and if you don't win, there's this big emotional response to it where here it was. And again, we didn't know what we were fucking doing. Let's face it, 2017, first venue in the United States. We never threw at clutches.

I had whole seasons. I called it FTC season. Fuck the Clutch. Didn't throw at it once. And that was the first 70 or better season I've ever had. But that's just, and that's back when the clutches were like, clutches. Were bigger. Were huge. There's no fricking reason for us to miss them. But we did. And we tried. And we tried. We got better and better. The core did.

And then we went up to Canada for that first IATC 2017, and they're throwing big axe clutches. So we're like, great, we're back to zero. But for me, the difference was the social aspect is that everybody cheering for each other. I mean, genuinely, it wasn't bullshit.

Everybody trying to, as a community get better and better. And we did. I mean, it was just cool. And it was a kind of a meteoric rise for Philadelphia for the next IATC. When we went back up there and did so much better.

Sean won in 2017, and he was the first American to win a match, and the Canadians were so fucking happy. The guy who he beat, he came off and I said, he just got beat by a kid by Philly. He says, you're kidding me. Takes off his hoodie, gives it to Sean. And again, genuinely excited for it. That to me was so foreign.

If you don't win, second place is loser. And I don't agree with that. I never have.

Even though this sport is very much what you're saying, where it's the community is important, the playing is important, the winning isn't nearly as important as other sports. You've always been, in my experience, a bulwark for that kind of "fuck around and have fun and be around each other" experience.

Yes.

And you've been that model, is that something that you're doing because that's just who you are? Or is it something you're doing because you realize that it needs to happen?

It's just who I am. It's as simple as that. And I've done it in other sports and this.

Dear reader, it was at this point someone came up to talk about what Pops was selling from his table of odds and ends:

Ed, get the fuck out of here.

Ed: You had a couple people eyeing up that weird act with the stars and strike

Pops: Good. Tell him buy it.

Ed: Well, that's what he wanted. How much?

Pops: Oh that. I'll go 65 bucks for that.

Ed: Okay, I'll let him know.

Pops: Yep. Cool. See, here I am. See, this is why I can't concentrate at this. This!

Two people warned me when I said I was interviewing you. One of 'em said, I hope that you just follow him around and ask him questions every once in a while. Oh my God, he will not be able to sit down and talk to you. And the other person said, I hope that you can make up shit. That sounds like it's him.

Yes. Because you may never get it. You'll never get a complete answer.

Yeah. It's like the Rosetta Stone. I'm trying to complete it.

That's right. But it's like I said, this tournament I've never thrown as well as I know I can because it's just not my focus.

But to answer your question, that really is the core of the human being that I am, is that I'll be there for other people before I'm there for myself. And I want everyone to have fun. And whether when we throw in a match, whether it's win, lose or draw, 90% of the people, I'm there to be social and have fun and let's go. And then there's the other 10 where I want to just fucking destroy them.

Yeah, of course.

And usually that is because we have history and it's not a negative history. We have a history of competition. And when we get in that arena together, it's like, okay, let's see what next chapter we're going to write. And that's just how it is.

So with this time that you've spent in this sport, seeing the IATF grow, seeing places come and go, what do you think Ax throwing right now at this moment does really well and what do you think it needs to be careful about?

Well, I'm going to go to the second part of that first.

let's face it, the pandemic beat the shit out of this sport. It just did. We were on such a rise before that number one growing sport in the US taken over by pickleball after this and that. But the pandemic kind of beat the hell out of that. How to keep the sport going. I'll be honest with you, I don't know. I think it's going to be an uphill battle. I think the future of acts throwing may just be private clubs and not open to the public. Because think about how much a venue can save if they don't have to worry about the insurance of the public. I am right

I'm there with you. I've come to the same conclusion on my own. I think that's the way that it's going to survive. By becoming smaller.

Venues tailored to leagues. Nobody from the public ever walks in, and the model of it from a paying standpoint can be a membership because then the venue has a known income. And it might take you, let's say two months to get out of your membership. So you keep paying for that two months. So the venue can try and replace you.

But I think that's where it's going to go. The only way I would ever open a venue of my own is if I purchase a building, have two tenants, and then my venue. So those two tenants pay for everything. And the overhead for that venue is almost nothing. But there are some people who've done that. Rob Dye, he can go on forever, man. He owns that fucking building. So great, great way to do it. Clutch shot. He owns that building so he can continue as long as he wishes to.

That's how I think the sport can continue. If we can't make that happen, it could die off. Sure. It truly could die off because I don't know if the new people coming into it have just the spirit and everything that we did in the beginning.

I think a lot of venues do, but I don't know how many. I will say this, IATF is spreading its wings a little bit into areas that was all WATL. The middle of the country, the left coast of the country, they're now opening venues, which is good. And these were all basically primarily all WATL out there.

I've thrown a lot of WATL and I don't anymore. And there's reasons for that, but it is what it is. I only have so much time to do this. Right? Sure. And I'll be 65 in a couple days, and I will do this as long as I physically can. I wish my two boys had, but their lives have changed. I mean, the focus is different. I wish they'd still throw with me, but it's, we do in the backyard during picnics.

Now, I don't know how to phrase this...

Phrase it, however it comes

Yeah. It's just, I'm trying to figure it out. You aren't known as a, when people see your name come up as they're going to throw against you, they know they're in for a fight, but you don't come off as a murderer.

Nope. Because everyone has a chance.

Everyone has a chance. I've rarely got to throw against you. I think, honestly, I think maybe once in my life I've thrown against you.

Maybe out at the marathon?

But the truth is, you are a very, very skilled thrower. What is advice? I guess what I'm saying is you occupy this weird space where you are fun as hell to throw with. You're not intimidating, but you cannot sleep on throwing against you because you know what you're doing. What is advice that you could give to a thrower perhaps who maybe isn't newer, but is kind of getting their sea legs for being both very skilled at throwing, but not being a jerk about it?

For me, this was advice I got from another thrower quite some time ago, and he threw in WATL, but he had just had good advice. And he said to give each throw the proper respect that it deserves, which means be fucking mindful. When I'm on, when I'm on, I am mindful for every throw I take.

If you ever notice the way I throw, I bring it up, I bring it back, and then I go, it's never just because all for me is all breathing. I breathe, I bring it up and I bring it back, and then I go when I'm on, that is just a breathing kind of thing for me.

And I'm giving that concentration and that respect to each and every throw. When it goes sideways for me is when I don't, right. Is when I don't do. And you can attribute that for golfing for years or this or that, but you have to, for me, it's just this. And I can do all of that and still be talkative and have some fun in this.

But when it comes down to stepping up to that fucking line, it's like, okay, quiet down in my head. I never say that aloud to anyone.

You just boom, boom [here he was mimicking a throw. I don't want you think he was just saying boom boom] and throw. So that's how I get when I'm on, that's what I do. And when I'm off, I'm not following that and I kick myself in the ass.

Like today.

Do you realize in the moment when you're not doing that?

Yes. Yeah. Oh, fuck yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. And I'll correct myself after one throw, and I'll say, you didn't give it the respect it deserved.

And because of that, you do whatever. You went this way, that way. And there are sometimes I don't give the throw the respect it deserves and it still works out well. And I can even after that go, okay, that worked out. But it may not again.

So yeah, that's what it is. I've learned through years of, we've got video from me very early, and I'm a baseball player, so my throw was out of control. I mean, I threw like Randy Johnson, I'm the back here. It was stupid where I never tried to emulate another throw.

And I would never recommend somebody: I'd recommend taking pieces of people's throws, maybe however many they are, and combine them and make your own. And that's what I love about the sport is because we are not robots, we do not step up to that line and do the exact same thing. We don't throw the same hatchets. We're all very different. And that's cool. But again, that's why when I throw really, well, I'm locked in that way. I can still be social, but when I step up to that fucking line, it's like, boom [again, mimicking a throw], here we go.

Do you believe in slumps? What do you do when you're in one?

Oh, God, yes.

I've had slumps in league where I've come out and I've thrown a unicorn one week. So that's four 81s - boom, effortlessly - and then come out the next week and not able to hit a clutch, miss six in a row. So I don't get too upset about those. I realize that it's happening, and if I can somehow correct it that night, okay, life is good, but often I can't.

And I just say, okay, it's the past. I'll do it again. I'll have that stretch where I'm not throwing as well as I should, but I know it'll pass. And what I hope is that it will pass at the appropriate time. I've had playoffs here at Chopper's and these playoffs are fucking brutal. And I've lost in the first round, and then swept to winning.

I mean, right through the whole B bracket, beating the A guy twice. And it can happen. You just have to block out that last throw. That's the simplest thing I can tell you. But there are times when it just keeps coming at you and you're just like, you can't get upset about it. You just keep going. You just keep going. And if you're good enough, and if you are aware enough, you'll be able to correct it in time. But they suck.

What else would I want to ask? You started going, I think I already told you when I first got into throwing, that was probably in 2021 maybe. Maybe 2022. I don't know. I got real into it. And what I do when I get real into something is I try to find every video possible. And I found a bunch of your videos where you are going through, actually, honestly, they looked a lot like the axes you're selling today.

And you were just talking about the qualities of these axes for throwing. And you're known for that. And well, at least to me, you're known for that. And you're known for carrying around that little cart, and having these axes that you sell for cheap. You just make up prices for on the fly.

I guess I don't have a question here. I just want to say out loud to you, I'm a big proponent of telling people what you think of them when you have the opportunity to do it.

Face to face. It is a good face, face to face.

I think it's your impact, at least for me in this sport. And I don't think that experience is limited.

My experience with you is the same as everyone else. You are a cornerstone of the sport in a way that is really hard to explain because you aren't known, and I don't mean this in a rude way.

No, I know. I know where exactly where you're going.

You aren't known as like, I'm not a powerhouse. I think of the top names in the sport, and there's a certain thing with that I'm sure you've recognized. I don't really give a shit about that. That is what it is. Great. Is what it is. You're at the top of the sport. Fantastic. You are something else, and the thing you are is limited to you.

I just want communicate to you that it is, I am so happy that what you bring to the sport is there. I can't imagine axe throwing without that kind of impact where people are so happy to see you. You obviously care a lot about people, but you never give off that feeling. You are very honest with your opinion about stuff. When people take stuff too seriously, you're like, Hey, chill out. Shut up. This doesn't matter. We're just goofing around.

And that's about it. And I'm more proud of having that kind of reputation than being an elite thrower or whatever.

I'm the type of thrower who can have a tournament like this (Choptober). You go one and two, and you're with a bunch of other people who either had just a bad day or they're still learning, and it doesn't bother me. And then every so often, I can light on fire. When somebody steps into a match with me, they really don't know which thrower they're going to get. And quite honestly, sometimes I don't know. And often I don't care.

I'm there. It could be just for fun, just getting out and being social, getting out of the house.

It's so important for older people. My first match was a guy who was probably 10 years older than me, and we just laughed at first. And we said, if you can't stand the smell of Tiger Balm, people, you may want to just leave. And it's great to see.

Let's put it this way: I was on ESPN with WATL once for the 2019 Canadian Open that was in Halifax, Nova Scotia, beautiful fucking area. But we went up there, I threw was on ESPN, and they talked about me. The guys called me the old guy in the kilt and pops and this and that. And I just had fun. Did really well. You had me in third, and it was just so much fun. The first time they were on ESPN.

After that, I went to tournaments and I had people come up to me and say, "you know what? You're the reason I'm throwing." These older guys, like guys in their fifties. They'd say, "I saw you. And I said, well, fuck, if this guy could do it, then I can do it."

And right there, I'm like, I don't need anything else.

When I first saw you, I thought "this fellow looks like he could cuss me out. And he's so exceptionally nice and he wants people to be here." So in those early videos, you were so into the idea, you just wanted people to come on out. It didn't matter if you had no idea what you were doing, just come on out. We'd love to have you.

And I thought, if that's the kind of person who's throwing God damn, that's what I want to be involved with because the pressure - the world's horrible. Let's just be easy on each other.

[It's at this point, dear reader, that for legal reasons, I need to cut out a bunch of what was recorded. Lemme just say, a third person walked up with some treats, and we got into a long discussion about how those treats, and the acquiring of them, has changed over the years.]

Is there anything that you want to add?

Well, I would like to add one thing that just so you know, you need to understand you've had an impact on the sport too.

Oh geez.

With your interviews and with your discussions about sometimes things that aren't discussed in the right light. And it's very important to do that and to just be honest and lay it out there and then let the conversation happen.

I know there are times where the conversations themselves are so torturous. But it's important to have voices out there and discussions out there because there are a lot of things that happen behind the scenes that the majority of throwers don't know about what's going on and things that are going to impact where we go in the future.

I don't know what the future has in store for axe throwing. I don't know. I'm a very optimistic person, so I hope we find a way to continue because I think it still has a lot to give to people and to bringing people together.

You see the mixture of human beings we have here, and that's truly the best thing about it. Because if you didn't have that, it would just be be what society thinks of people. That's what would be. And you need to be, and speak, and interact with humans to know that everybody deserves to be whoever the fuck they want to be.

And it's why this country right now is so disturbing to me and what's happening now. It's horrible, but it is what it is.

And I'll just keep you yapping if you let me. I will do it.

And that's where the interview ended, which is perfectly fine by me. Big thanks to Pops for sitting down and being so open with me about, well, everything. He's a gem in this sport.